5:28 p.m.
Hi everybody:
I have a few suggestions that I think has the potential to improve
gretl significantly. But, first of all, as a newcomer, I hope you
don't consider my continously suggesting things in a negative way. I
just do my own thinking about how the program can be better and speak
my mind about it. In the end, it is you who will decide what will be
implemented because you guys are doing all the hard work. Anyway, here
goes:
1- My first and most important suggeston is to make the gretl main
window the icon view. The list of variables will be removed and turned
into an icon itself. When the user double clicks on the "variables"
icon, a new window will be opened with the usual vertical list of
variables. Various reasons and advantages for doing this is as
follows:
a)- The icon view is a particularly important and intuitive
feature of gretl and I think most people agree that it should be more
central.
b)- The list of variables, on the other hand, is not as central
to devote the whole program window for. True, one can do various
things by right clicking on each variable (boxplot, gini, spectrum
etc.) but these can easily done using the pull-down menus. For many
tasks such as modeling, graphing etc., the user already has to use
devoted "dialog boxes" such as the "specify model" window or the
"define graph" window anyway. Maybe there will be a need for some
additional dialogs for some items but I think it is totally worth it.
Besides, the existing functionlity can be kept in the new framework as
well. That is, the user can still highlight a variable within the
"variables" window and do certain tasks using the variables menu. The
only difference is that now variables is a seperate window that can be
opened and closed from the default icon view.
c)- And, you don't even have to call it the "icon view" because
if you think about it, there is no other view. The regression results
are saved into the session as icons and there is no other view such as
a list view or a console view to retreive the previous results. (of
course results can be saved seperately as csv, txt, word etc. but that
is something else).
2- My second suggestion is: the "file" menu can be modified so that
the first items are "new session" "open session", "save
session",
"save session as" "close session" etc. This is because the main mode
of working is through "sessions". There is no need for the "open
data"
item. After starting the program, the user is expected to select "new
session" or "open session". If he or she selects "new session",
a
selection diaog can provide the options to create "null data" or open
or import various existing data files. This will both simplify the
file menu and keep things intuitive and logical IMHO.
3- I think splash screens are important. They have some usefulness and
also give a nice and professional touch to the program. Most programs
have them so it is something users expect to see. Allin says:
I'm not averse to a splash screen, so long as you can turn it
off quite easily! By all means give it a go.
IMO the splash screen can stay on the
screen for just 2 seconds and
can even be made disappear sooner with a single mouse click. I am
happy to try a few desings so that you can select the one that you
like the most. I can get started when I have the high resolution
Gretel image. By the way where does this image come from? Can we get
into trouble for using it? You guys are positive that should be the
theme in the splash screen?
4- The new prefences screen that was proposed is a tedious task ti
implement (as I understand it) but it is also very important because
this way you are taking a good deal of functionality and make it
accessible in the GUI not just the console. This is a way to make sure
gretl not only becomes more powerful but also looks powerful and acts
powerful since GUI is the main mode of working by design.
5- Related to (4), is there a way to make matrix functionality also
accessible from the menus? This is also an important and powerful
feature. I am not sure about know how to do this but as I see it, you
guys are naturals for GUI design and I am sure you would come up with
a very intuitive way for implementing this also.
That is all I had in my mind. I would be very happy to hear what
everybody thinks of these sugestions. They certainly make alot of
sense to me and I think most of them can be implemented relatively
easily. Finally I would like to share the good news that the review of
the upcoming gretl 1.6.0 and its numerical accuracy that I coauthored
with my wife is accepted to JAE for publication in the software
section. Have a great day everyone...
Sincerely,
Talha
--
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort. - Herm Allbright
(1876-1944)
--
7:34 p.m.
On Sun, 16 Jul 2006, Talha Yalta wrote:
No, you're very welcome to make suggestions. We'll even
implement some of them! (Current CVS has some further
small modifications to the handling of p-values in the light of
your tests.)
1- My first and most important suggeston is to make the gretl
main window the icon view. The list of variables will be
removed and turned into an icon itself.
I've been meaning to write a full response to your comments on
the overall gui design (you have thought about this carefully
and certainly deserve a response), but I haven't had time yet.
At present I only have time for a brief response:
1) Personally, I disagree quite strongly: I find the variable
listing window very useful and the icon view useful only for
specialized, low-frequency tasks (composing and viewing the
"model table" or "graph page").
2) The variable listing window is quite dense in shortcuts and
tricks which are probably not obvious at first but which make an
"expert" user quite productive. I'll try to write something up
on this before long.
3) Gretl is now enough of a community project that you shouldn't
take my negative on point 1 as "end of story". It _is_ end of
story for the 1.6.0 release -- there will be no gui redesign
beyond a more logical arrangement of menu items -- but
thereafter we can reopen this question again.
I don't really get "new session". You've entered a new session
simply by starting the program. Now you most likely want to
open a data file -- or a script, or perhaps a saved session.
I'd be happy to discuss this sort of thing after 1.6.0, but not
right now, because what you have in mind is, IMO, more then a
menu tidy-up, as in:
a selection diaog can provide the options to create "null
data" or open or import various existing data files.
I got the Gretel image off the web in 2000. Via Google images
I've found the same jpeg at
http://legends.duelingmodems.com/fairy/index.html
There's no copyright info there, and this seems to be a
relatively new site, probably not where I got it from
originally. Apparently it's not the work of any of the
better-known Grimm illustrators. Another site is using an
edited version of the same file. I think we're OK.
I think Gretel should be in the design somewhere, but it needn't
be centred on her.
Excellent!
Allin.
8:05 a.m.
On Sun, July 16, 2006 19:28, Talha Yalta wrote:
All feedback is welcome. Especially from someone who has already given back to
the project like you have.
1- My first and most important suggeston is to make the gretl main
window the icon view...
I totally agree with Allin in his answer. The variable list conveys much more
information than the icon view, in both directions (ie, from the program to
the user and back), it seems natural that it has to be the main environment.
2- My second suggestion is: the "file" menu can be
modified...
Again, total agreement with Allin on this.
Well, most programs have a splash screen because they need time to initialise
stuff (when I saw someone firing up Acrobat under Windows I couldn't believe
my eyes: I'm trying to read a pdf file, for god's sake, not to send a rocket
to Mars!). From that point of view, *not* having a splash screen looks better
to me; "lean and mean" means cool. But I agree that some eye candy can be
necessary. In this case, let's take the opportunity to make the splash screen
informative, not just pretty. For instance, it could clearly and conspicuously
display the version number, or the build date for the snapshot. Other info
that may be useful are: plugins (tramo/x-12 on/off, gnuplot version used),
total memory, CPU power in MIPS/flops and so on.
Not necessarily. In my view, gretl is a library first and foremost. That said,
the library's functionality can be accessed either via cli or via the gui; the
gui must be as powerful and flexible as possible: it would be useless to have
working code that can't be run by the user. OTOH, I like to encourage people
to use the command-line as much as I can, because it's the only way to become
a power user IMO.
Hmmm... like what? I mean, into how many mouse clicks would take to do
something like the following?
scalar T = 100
scalar k = 4
matrix X = normal(T,k)
matrix K = cholesky(inv(X' *X))
How horribly complex the menu structure for doing this would have to be? What
is there to gain (apart from a guaranteed carpal tunnel syndrome :-))?
Ah-ha! Nice shot! Congrats!
Riccardo "Jack" Lucchetti
Dipartimento di Economia
Facoltà di Economia "G. Fuà"
Ancona
10:59 p.m.
Thanks Professor Cottrell, yes I have been thinking about this
carefully. I see that both you and Jack disagree with my suggestions
for now and I understand and respect this perfectly. Still, I cannot
help but make a few additional comments to clarify myself:
Firstly, I didn't wish to imply that I was hoping to see these
suggestions implemented immediately for the 1.6.0 version. This is a
quite rather radical change and a lot of testing and other users'
feedback are required to implement it.
That being said, I honestly think that these changes can really be a
desirable and feasible direction for the future versions. I came to
this conclusion after talking with a few people who are users of other
programs and not very familiar with gretl. For example, my wife is
using eviews for her dissertation and she says that the only reason
she would even consider switching to gretl is the icon view. She has a
huge dataset and constantly running tens of different regressions and
dealing with many many graphs. She says it is really frustrating for
her to keep track of everything she has been doing and there is no way
she can easily organize all her work in eviews. (still, she cannot
switch because she is doing some dynamic panel stuff). The same thing
goes with me. I am using gretl for my dissertation and the icon view
is a lifesaver for me to get organized. I have so many icons lying
around.
The current setting is very efficient for classroom use, where the
students open a sample data file and easily see the frequency
distribution or run several tests by highlighting a variable from the
variable list. However, with the proven accuracy and constantly
increasing number of tools and functions, gretl is headed to become a
fullfledged econometric analysis environment, not just a "library" of
functions.
Imagine a user planing to start a rather comprehensive analysis with
gretl. The user is encouraged to first define a new project or a
session since his or her work is likely to take more than an hour or
two. Even if it is a small project, it is a good practice to archive
all the work in the end so working in sessions should be encouraged
always. That is why I propose putting session related items at the top
of the menu. A .gretl file is what .xls is for excel or .nb is for
mathematica. (By the way, I see that maybe there is no need for a "new
session" item since other programs have it when it is possible to work
with multiple projects. Can having multiple sessions be something
desirable in gretl?)
Similarly, the icon view becomes more important as the size of the
project increases. Once the users starts a new project and adds a data
file or a null data, all the subsequent analysis should be savable as
icons. Maybe there will be multiple sampling of the data. The rules
for each sample can be saved as an icon for example. Think of a truly
object oriented environment and each object as an icon. Matrix
functionality can probably be transfered to the GUI with the help of
icons as well. (Maybe a matrix palette or toolbar?) I agree with Jack
that this is a difficult task but it should be possible. This is where
intuition and lots of thinking, trying and refining comes in.
Now, both Allin and Jack says that variable view conveys very
important information and functionality. I understand this and propose
that the "variable window" can be open by default. I created a mockup
screen, which is attached to this message. I think it looks nice and
existing functionalty is not sacrificed. Of course it can be better
than this.
Finally, I disagree with the idea that some things are better left for
the console in order to encourage users to use the command line more.
IMHO that defeats the purpose of using gretl. On the other hand, I
perfectly understand that all these changes require resources and
there are other priorities such as implementing more functionality.
Here is hoping that all these will be possible in the future with the
additional help by new volunteers. As Allin says gretl is increasingly
becoming a community project. So I think it is good to have a clear
direction for the future of the program now. By the way, I think
somebody has already registered the www.gretl.org. Entering address
forwards to www.gretl.com (which is also taken). It just displays a
blank page with "GRETL" written at the top.
Sincerely,
Talha
--
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort. - Herm Allbright
(1876-1944)
--
11:01 p.m.
I realized that the file was not properly attached. So here is the
mockup screen that I prepared.
6847
days inactive
6848
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4 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
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Allin Cottrell -
Riccardo Jack Lucchetti -
Talha Yalta