11:04 a.m.
Hi,
first of all, as always many thanks to Allin and Jack for the new
release! Gretl continues to get better and better at what I still
consider to be a remarkable pace.
One interface-related example of that is the text-area-splitting in some
windows that was recently introduced. It got me thinking about some
aspects of gretl's general interface -- sometimes I have too many gretl
windows floating around for my taste. It gets confusing and switching to
the one I want sometimes takes a while because I have to flip through so
many others.
So I would like to suggest to somehow consolidate the various windows a
little in order to reduce the number of open windows.
For example, what about integrating the script output window into the
respective script window itself? In the upper part you might have the
script, and in the lower part the output.
In the same spirit, I think the session view window could be integrated
into the main window, side by side.
I used to think that such GUI reforms are very difficult to program, but
as I said, the recent window-splitting additions inspired some hope. But
of course these are just general thoughts and in a sense that would be a
luxury, not really a necessity.
Thanks,
sven
4:31 p.m.
New subject: store or mwrite solution
I need to save in each iteration of a long loop an, in principle,
unknown number of scalars. I tried saving all them in a matrix and
writing it to disk with 'mwrite', but this is very time consuming
because the matrix is very big. I think in this case could be more
efficient to write it row by row to disk but
1) I cannot use 'mwrite' because in each iteration the matrix is
ovewritten
2) I know that inside a loop the command 'store' can save some scalars
in each iteration, but I don't know how to write the command for an
unknown number of scalars,
So I ask to our dear developers for some solution:
a) Could be possible that the comand 'store' can allow for a row matrix
as argument?
b) or, could be possible to define a "list of scalars" command (slist)
similar to the list of series? so I could use:
slist myscalarlist += s_$i (in the loop)
store myscalarlist
c) or, finally could be possible to define a 'mwritea' (mwrite append)
function so that the matrix written to disk in each iteration can be
appended with to the data of the previous iterations ?
--
Ignacio Diaz-Emparanza
DEPARTAMENTO DE ECONOMÍA APLICADA III (ECONOMETRÍA Y ESTADÍSTICA)
UPV/EHU
Avda. Lehendakari Aguirre, 83 | 48015 BILBAO
T.: +34 946013732 | F.: +34 946013754
www.ea3.ehu.es
4:59 p.m.
New subject: store or mwrite solution
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009, Ignacio Diaz-Emparanza wrote:
I need to save in each iteration of a long loop an, in principle,
unknown number of scalars. I tried saving all them in a matrix and
writing it to disk with 'mwrite', but this is very time consuming
because the matrix is very big...
You could try something like:
set messages off
set echo off
outfile scalars.txt --write
loop i=1..n -q
printf "%.15g\n", some_scalar
endloop
outfile --close
Allin
8:55 p.m.
New subject: store or mwrite solution
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009, Allin Cottrell wrote:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009, Ignacio Diaz-Emparanza wrote:
> I need to save in each iteration of a long loop an, in principle,
> unknown number of scalars. I tried saving all them in a matrix and
> writing it to disk with 'mwrite', but this is very time consuming
> because the matrix is very big...
You could try something like:
set messages off
set echo off
outfile scalars.txt --write
loop i=1..n -q
printf "%.15g\n", some_scalar
endloop
outfile --close
or perhaps
<script>
m = {}
loop i=1..10 -q
m |= {i}
endloop
mwrite(m,"foo.mat")
</script>
It's possible to implement the "append" solution, but IMO there are a few
disadvantages: first, the format we use for storing matrices is such that
the first row of the file contains the muber of rows and columns, so we'd
have to read that, update it and then do the actual append. Doable, but
ugly. Second, what's supposed to happen if you try to append a matrix with
n columns to a matrix with m columns when m!=n?
Riccardo (Jack) Lucchetti
Dipartimento di Economia
Università Politecnica delle Marche
r.lucchetti(a)univpm.it
http://www.econ.univpm.it/lucchetti
5:20 p.m.
I agree. This is specially annoying on windows 7 due to the taskbar changes
(of course, you can change the default behaviour, but that's not what people
do).
On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 8:04 AM, Sven Schreiber <svetosch(a)gmx.net> wrote:
Hi,
first of all, as always many thanks to Allin and Jack for the new
release! Gretl continues to get better and better at what I still
consider to be a remarkable pace.
One interface-related example of that is the text-area-splitting in some
windows that was recently introduced. It got me thinking about some
aspects of gretl's general interface -- sometimes I have too many gretl
windows floating around for my taste. It gets confusing and switching to
the one I want sometimes takes a while because I have to flip through so
many others.
So I would like to suggest to somehow consolidate the various windows a
little in order to reduce the number of open windows.
For example, what about integrating the script output window into the
respective script window itself? In the upper part you might have the
script, and in the lower part the output.
In the same spirit, I think the session view window could be integrated
into the main window, side by side.
I used to think that such GUI reforms are very difficult to program, but
as I said, the recent window-splitting additions inspired some hope. But
of course these are just general thoughts and in a sense that would be a
luxury, not really a necessity.
Thanks,
sven
_______________________________________________
Gretl-devel mailing list
Gretl-devel(a)lists.wfu.edu
http://lists.wfu.edu/mailman/listinfo/gretl-devel
8:11 p.m.
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009, Sven Schreiber wrote:
first of all, as always many thanks to Allin and Jack for the new
release! Gretl continues to get better and better at what I still
consider to be a remarkable pace.
Thanks.
One interface-related example of that is the text-area-splitting
in some windows that was recently introduced. It got me thinking
about some aspects of gretl's general interface -- sometimes I
have too many gretl windows floating around for my taste. It
gets confusing and switching to the one I want sometimes takes a
while because I have to flip through so many others.
In current CVS I've begun to address this:
* The main window now has a menu item named "Windows" which
presents a list of open gretl windows, with icons in some cases to
provide an easy visual fix on what's open. I'm not sure whether
this should be a sub-item of the "View" menu, or a top-level menu
in its own right. For now I've made it the latter. Any thoughts?
* The right-click popup menus for most gretl windows now have an
item "Main window", which lets you get back there in case the main
window is buried -- and once you're there you have access to the
new window listing.
Allin.
8:43 p.m.
In current CVS I've begun to address this:
is it possible to make the updater use the cvs versions instead of the
"release" versions?
* The main window now has a menu item named "Windows"
which
presents a list of open gretl windows, with icons in some cases to
provide an easy visual fix on what's open. I'm not sure whether
this should be a sub-item of the "View" menu, or a top-level menu
in its own right. For now I've made it the latter. Any thoughts?
It's ok as a top level menu and better than under view, I think, besides it
is the convential way of implementing the windows menu (at least on ms
windows programs). Right now I don't see the icons on xp. Besides, it could
be useful to have it on every window to the left of the close button (or
instead of it, the OS already provides one) (e.g. correlations matrix
window). Or, perhaps, offer the (optional) feature to bring to the front all
gretl windows (or maybe only the main and session icons windows) when
clicking on one. I.e. when you click on the taskbar button for a window with
script results you make all gretl windows' visible manteining the previous
z-order between them.
* The right-click popup menus for most gretl windows now have an
item "Main window", which lets you get back there in case the main
window is buried -- and once you're there you have access to the
new window listing.
It is great. Maybe it could have a place on the toolbar too.
Allin.
_______________________________________________
Gretl-devel mailing list
Gretl-devel(a)lists.wfu.edu
http://lists.wfu.edu/mailman/listinfo/gretl-devel
9:13 p.m.
Allin Cottrell schrieb:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009, Sven Schreiber wrote:
> One interface-related example of that is the text-area-splitting
> in some windows that was recently introduced. It got me thinking
> about some aspects of gretl's general interface -- sometimes I
> have too many gretl windows floating around for my taste. It
> gets confusing and switching to the one I want sometimes takes a
> while because I have to flip through so many others.
In current CVS I've begun to address this:
* The main window now has a menu item named "Windows" which
presents a list of open gretl windows, with icons in some cases to
provide an easy visual fix on what's open. I'm not sure whether
this should be a sub-item of the "View" menu, or a top-level menu
in its own right. For now I've made it the latter. Any thoughts?
Given that "View" is the shortest of all menus and that there are
already nine top-level menus I would tend to favor the View menu. But to
be honest I'm not sure if that's the best approach; on many systems you
have a list of the open gretl windows already in some taskbar (don't
know about windows 7 that Patricio mentioned). So having another such
list inside gretl may be redundant in many situations.
I don't have the perfect solution, so I proposed a partial reform that
would reduce the overall number of windows. Another possibility in
principle might be to have a "gretl workspace window" that holds all
other gretl windows (apart from dialog windows). That way you don't run
into situations where many gretl windows are buried below other
applications.
-- BTW, that just inspired an idea: I think it would be helpful if with
some command you could "conjure" all gretl windows to the front at the
same time. Actually, if that were possible, I would tend to think that
it's actually not necessary to reduce the number of windows! So, is it
possible?
thanks, especially for your open-mindedness about this issue,
sven
9:51 p.m.
Given that "View" is the shortest of all menus and that there are
already nine top-level menus I would tend to favor the View menu. But to
be honest I'm not sure if that's the best approach; on many systems you
have a list of the open gretl windows already in some taskbar (don't
know about windows 7 that Patricio mentioned). So having another such
list inside gretl may be redundant in many situations.
it is standard on windows to have the windows menu. the only use it
commonly has is
to access minimized windows inside a mdi interface buried by
other windows (which is not the case) and to tile windows.
-- BTW, that just inspired an idea: I think it would be helpful if with
some command you could "conjure" all gretl windows to the front at the
same time. Actually, if that were possible, I would tend to think
that
it's actually not necessary to reduce the number of windows! So, is it
possible?
well, maybe this could be easily resolved (don't know, not a skillful
programmer) with some global keyboard shorcuts (that work in any window).
that could improve usability without undergoing ui surgery, leaving that as
a separate thing for discussing at another time. something like...
ctrl+shift+m main window
ctrl+shift+c command window
ctrl+shift+h help (global version, keeping h for compatibility)
ctrl+shift+s session window
ctrl+shift+t tile windows (same on xp as ctrl+clicking several buttons
on the taskbar, then right clicking and selecting tile vertically or tile
horizontally)
ctrl+shift+u bring all windows up
ctrl+shift+k only keep active window visible
ctrl+shift+p pin window (keep active window always on top)
ctrl+shift+pgdn next window
ctrl+shift+pgup previous window
9:54 p.m.
add a ctrl+shift+r to cycle through open scripts and scripts results windows
2009/11/28 patriciocuaron <patriciocuaron(a)gmail.com>
Given that "View" is the shortest of all menus and that
there are
> already nine top-level menus I would tend to favor the View menu. But to
> be honest I'm not sure if that's the best approach; on many systems you
> have a list of the open gretl windows already in some taskbar (don't
> know about windows 7 that Patricio mentioned). So having another such
> list inside gretl may be redundant in many situations.
>
> it is standard on windows to have the windows menu. the only use it
commonly has is to access minimized windows inside a mdi interface buried by
other windows (which is not the case) and to tile windows.
-- BTW, that just inspired an idea: I think it would be helpful if with
some command you could "conjure" all gretl windows to the front at the
> same time. Actually, if that were possible, I would tend to think that
> it's actually not necessary to reduce the number of windows! So, is it
> possible?
>
>
well, maybe this could be easily resolved (don't know, not a skillful
programmer) with some global keyboard shorcuts (that work in any window).
that could improve usability without undergoing ui surgery, leaving that as
a separate thing for discussing at another time. something like...
ctrl+shift+m main window
ctrl+shift+c command window
ctrl+shift+h help (global version, keeping h for compatibility)
ctrl+shift+s session window
ctrl+shift+t tile windows (same on xp as ctrl+clicking several buttons
on the taskbar, then right clicking and selecting tile vertically or tile
horizontally)
ctrl+shift+u bring all windows up
ctrl+shift+k only keep active window visible
ctrl+shift+p pin window (keep active window always on top)
ctrl+shift+pgdn next window
ctrl+shift+pgup previous window
1:49 a.m.
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009, Sven Schreiber wrote:
Allin Cottrell schrieb:
> * The main window now has a menu item named "Windows" which
> presents a list of open gretl windows, with icons in some cases to
> provide an easy visual fix on what's open. I'm not sure whether
> this should be a sub-item of the "View" menu, or a top-level menu
> in its own right. For now I've made it the latter. Any thoughts?
Given that "View" is the shortest of all menus and that there
are already nine top-level menus I would tend to favor the View
menu. But to be honest I'm not sure if that's the best
approach...
I'm thinking that if this new feature is to be really useful, it
should be immediately apparent, not one layer down.
However, I take your point about the proliferation of top-level
menu headings. I wonder if we could do some consolidation,
perhaps reducing "Data", "View" and "Sample" to 2 headings.
on many systems you have a list of the open gretl windows
already in some taskbar (don't know about windows 7 that
Patricio mentioned). So having another such list inside gretl
may be redundant in many situations.
A gretl window list is less essential if the desktop has its own
(good) task-listing mechanism, yes. But for people who have lots
of windows open I think we can probably do better. For one thing,
we can drop the leading "gretl: " from the listed window titles so
it's easier to scan the relevant part. And we can origanize
things to some extent, with model-related windows listed under the
model window to which they pertain.
I don't have the perfect solution, so I proposed a partial
reform that would reduce the overall number of windows.
Frankly, I don't like the idea of sticking together windows that
are currently separate. It reduces flexibility and, IMO, destroys
the design coherence of existing windows. I tried a test of
combining the existing main window with the icon view (this was
some months ago), and I didn't like the result at all.
Another possibility in principle might be to have a "gretl
workspace window" that holds all other gretl windows (apart from
dialog windows).
MDI? Sorry, I don't like it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_document_interface
-- BTW, that just inspired an idea: I think it would be helpful if
with
some command you could "conjure" all gretl windows to the front at the
same time. Actually, if that were possible, I would tend to think that
it's actually not necessary to reduce the number of windows! So, is it
possible?
Hmm, tessellating the plane with gretl windows? I don't know how
easy that would be.
thanks, especially for your open-mindedness about this issue,
As you see, I'm open-minded only up to a point! But we'll see
what we can do.
Allin.
9:56 a.m.
Dear fellow gretl users and contributors:
First of all, I'd like to thank and congratulate Allin and other
contributors for a successfull new release and their endless efforts
making gretl keep getting better and better. I do appreciate the new
window management functionality in the CVS and would like to offer my
two cents on this issue:
I welcome the new windows menu and I also agree that it is not as
useful and intuitive even as a sub menu. Moreover, I think we are
getting close to a point where we have too many menus and menu items.
If I am not mistaken, about three years ago we've had a discussion
regarding a reorganization of the gretl menus, which resulted in a
much improved user interface. Since gretl keeps getting more and more
functionality and new menu items, this may be a good time to do this
again. As a result:
1)- I support Allin's proposal to merge "Data", "View" and
"Sample" to
2 headings.
2)- I humbly suggest that we
a)- move the "Seed for random numbers" and the "Set missing
value code" menu items to the preferences window,
b)- remove the second "Define new variable..." item in the
Variable menu. We already have this in the Add menu and it fits there
quite well.
3)- One problem I am having while working with multiple windows is
that various gretl windows have the same title, which results in
ANOVA, confidence ellipse, normality test etc. windows from different
models getting mixed up. IMHO it would be much better if the different
windows originating from different models had the name of the original
model in their respective titles. That is, instead of having "gretl:
ANOVA" for all ANOVA windows, we would have something like "gretl:
ANOVA (Model 8)."
4)- Recently I had personally complained to Allin regarding how
various error message windows could get lost below other open windows
and freeze everything else. Allin was kind enough to fix this so that
now we have such windows remain at the top at all times. I strongly
belive that it would be better still if the various dialog boxes (such
as model specification or choosing variables to plot something etc.)
were to stay at the top also. These do not freeze gretl but they can
sometimes get lost under other windows. Making them stay on top would
ensure that the user is aware of them and do someting with them, that
is either use them or close them, preventing window clutter and
promoting a more organized work environment.
Best regards
A. Talha Yalta
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 3:49 AM, Allin Cottrell <cottrell(a)wfu.edu> wrote:
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009, Sven Schreiber wrote:
> Allin Cottrell schrieb:
> > * The main window now has a menu item named "Windows" which
> > presents a list of open gretl windows, with icons in some cases to
> > provide an easy visual fix on what's open. I'm not sure whether
> > this should be a sub-item of the "View" menu, or a top-level menu
> > in its own right. For now I've made it the latter. Any thoughts?
>
> Given that "View" is the shortest of all menus and that there
> are already nine top-level menus I would tend to favor the View
> menu. But to be honest I'm not sure if that's the best
> approach...
I'm thinking that if this new feature is to be really useful, it
should be immediately apparent, not one layer down.
However, I take your point about the proliferation of top-level
menu headings. I wonder if we could do some consolidation,
perhaps reducing "Data", "View" and "Sample" to 2
headings.
> on many systems you have a list of the open gretl windows
> already in some taskbar (don't know about windows 7 that
> Patricio mentioned). So having another such list inside gretl
> may be redundant in many situations.
A gretl window list is less essential if the desktop has its own
(good) task-listing mechanism, yes. But for people who have lots
of windows open I think we can probably do better. For one thing,
we can drop the leading "gretl: " from the listed window titles so
it's easier to scan the relevant part. And we can origanize
things to some extent, with model-related windows listed under the
model window to which they pertain.
> I don't have the perfect solution, so I proposed a partial
> reform that would reduce the overall number of windows.
Frankly, I don't like the idea of sticking together windows that
are currently separate. It reduces flexibility and, IMO, destroys
the design coherence of existing windows. I tried a test of
combining the existing main window with the icon view (this was
some months ago), and I didn't like the result at all.
> Another possibility in principle might be to have a "gretl
> workspace window" that holds all other gretl windows (apart from
> dialog windows).
MDI? Sorry, I don't like it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_document_interface
> -- BTW, that just inspired an idea: I think it would be helpful if with
> some command you could "conjure" all gretl windows to the front at the
> same time. Actually, if that were possible, I would tend to think that
> it's actually not necessary to reduce the number of windows! So, is it
> possible?
Hmm, tessellating the plane with gretl windows? I don't know how
easy that would be.
> thanks, especially for your open-mindedness about this issue,
As you see, I'm open-minded only up to a point! But we'll see
what we can do.
Allin.
_______________________________________________
Gretl-devel mailing list
Gretl-devel(a)lists.wfu.edu
http://lists.wfu.edu/mailman/listinfo/gretl-devel
--
“Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far
more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting
moment.” - Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
--
9:17 p.m.
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, Talha Yalta wrote:
I do appreciate the new window management functionality in the
CVS and would like to offer my two cents on this issue:
I welcome the new windows menu and I also agree that it is not
as useful and intuitive even as a sub menu. Moreover, I think we
are getting close to a point where we have too many menus and
menu items.
In CVS I have made the window-list menu available in various ways:
1) Under /View/Windows
2) In most gretl windows, via Alt-w. If that keybinding collides
with something important to people, please let me know.
3) For (most?) windows with a toolbar at the top, via a new
"compass" icon button. If anyone can find or produce a better
compass icon (or other suitable icon for the job) at 16x16 pixels,
please do so!
If I am not mistaken, about three years ago we've had a
discussion
regarding a reorganization of the gretl menus, which resulted in a
much improved user interface. Since gretl keeps getting more and more
functionality and new menu items, this may be a good time to do this
again. As a result:
1)- I support Allin's proposal to merge "Data", "View" and
"Sample" to
2 headings.
Hmm, I did float that idea, but I'm not sure how to do it.
2)- I humbly suggest that we
a)- move the "Seed for random numbers" and the "Set missing
value code" menu items to the preferences window,
I don't think of these as "preferences". I think of preferences
as relatively settled matters that you'd not want to change much.
I think of the random seed as a tool, and the missing values code
as dataset-dependent.
b)- remove the second "Define new variable..." item in
the
Variable menu. We already have this in the Add menu and it fits there
quite well.
Yeah, but defining a new variable is such a common task that I
don't think it hurts to have it in both places.
3)- One problem I am having while working with multiple windows is
that various gretl windows have the same title, which results in
ANOVA, confidence ellipse, normality test etc. windows from different
models getting mixed up. IMHO it would be much better if the different
windows originating from different models had the name of the original
model in their respective titles. That is, instead of having "gretl:
ANOVA" for all ANOVA windows, we would have something like "gretl:
ANOVA (Model 8)."
Yes, that's probably worth doing.
Allin.
12:18 a.m.
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, Allin Cottrell wrote:
In CVS I have made the window-list menu available in various ways:
...
3) For (most?) windows with a toolbar at the top, via a new
"compass" icon button. If anyone can find or produce a better
compass icon (or other suitable icon for the job) at 16x16 pixels,
please do so!
OK, I've got a better icon (it's now in CVS).
Allin
4:19 a.m.
here's imo a better icon (creative commons) based on the tango icon set
http://www.chipx86.com/blog/2007/03/09/vmware-tango-icons-%E2%99%A5-creat...
and there is another one that could fit, from the 'official' tango releases,
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Preferences-system-windows.svg
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Allin Cottrell <cottrell(a)wfu.edu> wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, Allin Cottrell wrote:
> In CVS I have made the window-list menu available in various ways:
> ...
> 3) For (most?) windows with a toolbar at the top, via a new
> "compass" icon button. If anyone can find or produce a better
> compass icon (or other suitable icon for the job) at 16x16 pixels,
> please do so!
OK, I've got a better icon (it's now in CVS).
Allin
_______________________________________________
Gretl-devel mailing list
Gretl-devel(a)lists.wfu.edu
http://lists.wfu.edu/mailman/listinfo/gretl-devel
5:23 a.m.
Em 2 de dezembro de 2009 Patricio Cuarón escreveu:
here's imo a better icon (creative commons) based on the tango
icon set
http://www.chipx86.com/blog/2007/03/09/vmware-tango-icons-%E2%99%A5-creat...
and there is another one that could fit, from the 'official' tango releases,
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Preferences-system-windows.svg
I agree with Patricio.
Best,
Henrique
5252
days inactive
5258
days old
15 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Allin Cottrell -
Henrique -
Ignacio Diaz-Emparanza -
Patricio Cuarón -
Riccardo (Jack) Lucchetti -
Sven Schreiber -
Talha Yalta